Diana Ross Reviewed
A lost standards album from 1972 finally gets its release.
Diana Ross, integral as she is to American pop music and beyond influential, still has a bad rap for being a prima donna and negelcting to release anything of consequence after the ’70s. Crystallizing her former powers, however, Blue returns her to the soundtrack she featured on for Lady Sings The Blues that was never released, plus four added tracks from the ’71/’72 sessions. Deemed too “jazzy” for Ross’ expansive pop base, her command over the Billie Holiday catalog is simply impressive. Of course, when dealing with such an iconic figure and deliberately attempting to recreate their idiosyncrasies, “I Loves Ya Porgy” and “What A Diff’rence A Day Makes” especially feel like imitations. But Ross, whose experience until than had been as a pure pop singer for The Supremes, shows command and versatility where the Berry Gordys of the world allowed her so little. She sparkles on “Love Is Here To Stay” and “Smile,” more than making up for Blue‘s belated issue.
— Steve Forstneger
Juan, You really are Diane! Only Diane and her most deluded fans would argue that “Diana Ross” is the center of the universe. I guess if you surround yourself with people who believe that, you will begin to believe it too. Diane’s people said, “Diane, go out and do the “Return to Love” tour. No one will notice that the Supremes aren’t the original girls.It’s always been about you…you are a diva!” You saw what happened! After the public humiliation, Diane finally lost her mind! I rest my case.
Neil, you are a mess. Why do you hate “Diana” so? It’s difficult to understand what motivates you. You seem to take joy in Diana’s disappointments like “Return to Love”, but ignore her many, many success’. You are blowing hot air in the wind my friend. Only you said that Diana was the “center of Universe”. Your jealousy drips from the words you type. Boy, I know you wish you were Diana, at least that’s how you come across. You know “thou protest too much”.
You know Neil I agree with moja with one exception You are a Miss and a Mess girlfriend!!!
You need to go get your sorry no talent,mindless,bitchy, self serving Mary Wilson loving ass a life child. as to your comment ” No one will notice that the Supremes aren’t the original girls ” That already happened years ago when Diana Ross recorded most recordings without the Supremes after Florence left. Florence herself was quoted as saying she would rather deal with Diana Ross than Mary Wilson because at least Diana Ross was honest about her feelings and would speak her mind, Mary on the other hand would speak out of both sides of her mouth. Who do you think taught Cindy Birdsong the act? Mary Wilson did and behind Florence’s back so much for her sisterly love. If you look at the photos from the early days Diana had a presence and kept herself up for example there is a picture of the motown stars getting ready to head to Europe in it Diana is flawlessly dressed to the nines Florence on the other hand is missing buttons from her coat and Mary poor child looks like she is wearing every stich of borrowed clothing she could get her hands on, a white fur caplet over an oversized white nappy buttonless coat with her matchstick looking legs hanging almost as thin as the umbrella she is holding her face is cute, even pretty but the mis-matched rag tagged look she is sporting takes away from that fact.In futher pictures from that trip Mary looks good enough but Florence is still missing the buttons. That was not the image Berry Gordy wanted his company to present to the world. In yet other pictures from that era the girls are shown returning to the the home town area where they grew up Diana’s dress is on a hanger in a garment bag, Florence’s is just draped over her arm and Mary’s must be hid under her deputy dawg looking pancho that looks like it was made up with coughed up hair balls from a diseased red cat Florence was a take me as I am type of girl and Diana Ross was ready willing and able to do whatever it takes to reach the top and Mary Wilson was stuck somewhere between the two.
Many of the Motown producers and writers always said if Berry Gordy asked them if he should spread their talents around on all the artists or focus on Diana Ross they would always say put it all on Diana Ross because ” I want to get paid come friday ” they understood what the world has come to know and what you refuse to accept Diana Ross has what it takes to reach her goals. She needs to prove herself to one one least of all you.The pictures I refer to are in a book titled the Motown Album from 1990.
Florence’s daughter as stated in an interview that her mother and Diana Ross were ” Sisters ” and it was just time for her mother to leave the group she made no such comment about Mary Wilson.
I would like to say that it is true Mary Wilson is still a remarkable looking woman, but it was Diana Ross who was selected to be the IMAC icon. So no Neil Diana Ross is not the center of the universe she doesn’t have to be being Diana Ross is enough for her as it would be for you and Miss Wilson.
The Album by the way which is what this space is supposed to be about is simply devine
You know what Ren, no matter how much we support Diana Ross, there are going to be haters. No one wants to believe that Diana made the Supremes. It was her voice that captivated the audiences around the globe. YOu here that Neil, get over it. Diana is the Princess of Motown, not Florence or Mary, but Diana. No matter how much you degrade Miss Ross, she will still come out on top. She will go down in history as the greatest entertainer of all time, the greatest entertainer in history, the most successfull entertainment of the centary, so no matter how much you hate on her, she will always come out as the winner, the bread maker, the princess, the STARR.
Nora.
You are right ….this is a “Diana Ross” website where she is regarded as the “center of the universe.” I am simply playing the role of Christopher Columbus who was trying to tell people that the world was round when they all truly believe it to be flat. Your attitudes toward Diane are really enabling. No wonder she lost her mind when she got a dose of reality with the “Return to Love” tour. All of your fawning doesn’t change anything, it just sets her up for her next jolt of reality. She is a wicked, aging, egomaniacal drunk whose best days are way behind her. As I said before, I rest my case.
Yeah Mary, I mean Neil, and all of your denial doesn’t change the fact that Mary has no talent, no hits, and can’t get over the fact that Diana is the one that sang on all those songs. It’s kind of funny how that “never was” Mary tries to make an issue of Diana going on a tour and singing HER songs that she made famous with two other Supremes that can actually sing. Mary Wilson takes her tired old ass all over the place singing in dives, the songs that Diana made famous with other people besides the original Supremes. So why is that okay? Diana doesn’t go around crying about Mary going on the raod as the Supremes, so why is it such an issue?????? As you well know bitter one it was Diana who whose voice you hear on all those hits, and you can’t deal with it. Mary is a coke snorting drunk that constantly has a mattress tied to her back. She’s so hateful and bitter about not having any talent or hits that she made herself sick.
You know this Neil character is lost in a world of hate. How sad and pitiful of a life must this person have to hate someone he doesn’t know; I mean to that extreme—sad!
You did notice that he didn’t make one comment to the factual statements I made that came from people “IN” the music industry; so we know what he’s about; certainly not the music; he is lost in a world spun by Mary Wilson’s tales of of Ms. Ross. Also the “Return To Love” perhaps should have never occurred, but who am I to judge; the fact is that Diana was glorious here in Dallas; and for those who missed the op to see the show; it’s a shame.
No person who takes risks does so without a few pitfalls; I think Ms. Ross should have promoted the CD; Every Day Is A New Day; as she was planning until ill advised, but Diana is not the reason the show didn’t go over; the reason is that most Americans believe what they hear on TV/Radio; And they did get a chance to see the “hater” Mary Wilson accuse Ms. Ross of Florence Ballard’s death; Ms. Ross should have filed a lawsuit for slander; as Florence clearly did not die at the hands of Ms. Ross.
But again this Neil person, is some pissy, hating queen who probably tucks his penis between his legs in an effort to be the kind of lady Ms. Ross IS; only a sad, tired, bitter old drag queen would hold on to such hate and disdain (I don’t have anything against drag); but tacky is simple put, tacky and no class is no class.
J
What are you people talking about? I have never said that Diane’s voice wasn’t a large part of the Supremes’success along with many other variables. The point I was trying to make was that the Supremes were so huge that the group’s legacy is bigger than the sum of it’s parts, Diane, Mary, and Flo are all “parts.” John Lennon and Paul McCartney were huge parts of the Beatles. Could you imagine Paul speaking of the Beatles as “I”? Diane speaks of the Supremes as “I”. At least Mary knows the pronoun “we.” You can’t compare the Supremes to Martha and the Vandellas or Sting or any other group. They were too big! The Supremes were in a class of their own. Even if Diane’s contribution was disproportionate to Mary’s and Flo’s role in their success, it was an ensemble. People didn’t regard the Supremes as anything other than as a group. It has only been since Diane has been a solo act that her fans have been trying to re-write history. Berry Gordy was in love with Diane…America was in love with the Supremes. People have put up with Diane’s antics for years. Trying to reunite the Supremes without Mary Wilson was not going to “wash” with the public. If that tour had been done correctly without Diane’s ego, the results might have been much different. I loved the Supremes with Diane in them. Her solo career was a direct result of the success of the Supremes. It is her attitude that she did it all by herself that infuriates. I am not equating Diane’s talent with Mary’s….there is no comparison; however, don’t equate Diane’s solo career with the Supremes. There is also no comparison. Diane has had a long and successful solo career; however, nothing she has ever done or will ever do will be greater than being the lead singer of the legendary Supremes. That is where she is truly a legend!
Neil, Neil, Neil, Why on earth do you keep posting your opinions here if you have such a distaste for DIANA Ross? This space is for people to leave their thoughts about her Blue release, not to vent their anger about Diana’s, Mary’s,& Cindy’s careers, or lack thereof and or Florence’s death. No one here diminishes the fame or popularity of the Supremes, ( I’ve listened to them from Run,Run,Run to Someday We’ll Be Together and beyond I loved the Supremes even after Diana Ross left) or the place in history that they have secured and yes of course Mary, Florence, and Cindy made major contributions to that success, no argument from me there. You however personally attack Diana Ross on every level almost as if you know her personally,ala Mary Wilson hence the belief that you are indeed Mary Wilson. Diana Ross did offer to include Mary Wilson on the Return To Love Tour, which was rather forgiving of her considering the two distorted books Mary had written. It was Mary Wilson who took a pass and the reason? That would be the title of the first Motown hit….. MONEY rumor has it the she wanted close to or equal to what Diana Ross was making and that was most unfortunate for the fans, you see it was Diana Ross who put up most of the money in the first place so she was the investor, as it was, and as such she would be entitled to collect a heftier cut of the profits than any of the others, as well as absorb the losses and what did Mary Wilson do? yet again she went out and to anyone who would listen she complained about Diana Ross using Diana Ross yet again as her scapegoat as to why she wasn’t a success.Mary Wilson sucess or lack thereof is due to one person, MARY WILSON not Diana Ross. Had she been willing to accept her role no telling what her success could have been but she blew it once again. As much as she says its all about the fans it was her who denied us the chance to witness this reunion and over what? MONEY!!!! Its sad to say but the only way Mary Wilson can get any media attention is to talk about Diana Ross. You never hear Diana Ross speak bad of Mary Wilson, why is that? because she has class. You can say many things about Diana Ross however it cannot be denied that she is a success. Ain’t No Mountian High Enough has been call by some the greatest record ever recorded, Endless Love spent 9 weeks at number one. So do us all a favor and Neil stick to the facts the proof is in the pudding. Diana Ross has had a rather lengthy career and a successful one at that and continues to do so as sad as it is to say none of the other Supremes can say the same. I suggest you have a look at the Motown Album book released in 1990 look on page 140 and see for yourself the distasteful look Florence is giving Mary, see for yourself on page 138 and 139 how poorly Mary Wilson is dressed. go to page 107 and see the full page picture and compare Diana Ross’ look to the other girls in the front row she is the standout. I remember in the book ” All That Glitters ” the author mentions that he was being taught how to lay out the Supremes make up and shown how to lay out Diana Ross’ first because the other girls din’t care how their make up was laid out but Diana had a way to lay her make up out, she wanted to know that everything was where it should be. That speaks volumes to her level of professionalism and no her request is not haughty or diva like you would have to agree it is best to know where everything is that you need. It has been said that Diana Ross in her younger days would say ” you may not like the way I sing, you may not like the way I dress, but your gonna LOVE Diana Ross ” and I do.
PS if you ever should run into Diana Ross mention your feelings to her because it sounds to me like you could use a serious ass whipping and I bet she could do that successfully too.
I forgot to mention and meant to mention in all fairness to Mary Wilson that in the book The Motown Album on page 110 there is a picture of the Supremes in Paris and in it Mary is indeed quite stunning
It was Mary who had the ego about The RTL tour. I thought it was very big of Diana to even consider going on a tour with Mary. It was the promoters who arranged the fees, so why was Diana being blamed. (as usual) It wasn’t going to “wash” for Mary to expect to be paid the same as Diana. That happened in the 60’s, and even you know that really wasn’t fair to Diana, she still did it. But it was crazy for Mary to think she should have made the same as Diana. Not only was Diana going to be singing lead, but Diana had a solo set in the show. In addition the difference in fees were not nearly as much as Mary wanted the press to believe. Diana purposely kept herself away from the negotiations with Mary, but she still got blamed for Mary not going on the road, and that’s ridiculous. Mary made the choice to not go. Mary has been going around billing herself as the Supremes for three decades, and that doesn’t “wash” with the public because Mary can’t sing and you really can’t have the Supremes without Diana, but you don’t hear Diana going around crying about Mary. So, I ask Neil why is it okay for Mary to go one the road and bill herself as the Supremes with two other girls, but when Diana does (which was only because Mary wouldn’t go on the road) even though she was the lead singer, it’s painted as such a horrible thing?
To answer your question: Flo is dead so she is out of the equation. When the group split, it was “Diana Ross and The Supremes.” With only Diane and Mary left, Diane took the “Diana Ross” part and Mary took “and The Supremes.” Diane seems to have carte blanche singing the Supremes songs as a solo act and Mary has it singing those songs as the remaining original Supreme. It was when Diane was trying to capitalize on”Diana Ross and The Supremes” without Mary that the trouble started. Again, the sum of the parts: Both Diane’s and Mary’s value go up when you put them back into the Supremes. Mary wilson as part of “Diana Ross and The Supremes” is a much more valuable commodity than Mary Wilson, the solo act. The same can be said about Diane. Mary never expected to be paid the same as Diane; however, she did expect more than she was offered. Also, Mary was concerned that she would be a second class player in what turned out to be a “Diana Ross” concert. She had enough of that in the 1960’s. I recently asked Mary about the RTL tour. Mary replied, “They (I don’t know who ‘they’ are) didn’t want us (Mary and Cindy). That was her only comment on the issue to me this past Spring.
I just LOVE how you Neil fail ro respond to any of the comments that I left that offer proof in pictures of Mary Wilsons inabilty to hold a candle to the torch that is Diana Ross. Truth be told Mary Wilson NEVER sang lead on ANY Supremes hits. EVER!!!! It was Jean Terrell who took over the duties as lead singer of the Supremes after Diana Ross left and why do you think that was?? could it be because she couldn’t sing lead??? or because she had a voice that was not considered ” marketable ” by the people who KNEW about such things? or was she content to stay in the background AND line her pockets using other people’s talent? sad isn’t it waiting all those years ” putting up with ” Diana Ross only to find out what many already knew MARY WILSON HAS NO TALENT. I’ve got to hand it to her she sure knows how to make a buck! Her rendition of ” Your just Too Good To Be True ” is better suited for a bowling alley than a Las Vegas stage. You see I have seen both Diana Ross and Mary Wilson in concert so I do know what I am talking about at Miss Wilsons concert she refers to Diana Ross in a very negative light and even mentioned ” Trying to reach the same notes that Diana did “, At the Diana Ross concert Diana mentions Mary Wilson, Folrence Ballard and Cindy Birdsong refering to them as ” The Super Duper Supremes ” give a listen to ” An Evening With Diana Ross ” Of Mary Wilson’s book Diana Ross has said that that not the way she recalls it and do remember that she was one of the original members so she has some memories too that are no less valid than those of Mary Wilson.
No Neil go sell crazy somewhere else you are in the WRONG fourm to voice your distaste of Diana Ross and your venting only confirms your stupidty. I suggest that you and Miss Mary Wilson head on out to ” the center of the universe ” and once there you will find what defines you both…………………….
A BIG BLACK HOLE
NUFF SAID
It is quite apparent that the books that have been published (as well as the comments that have been placed on this site) have their own agendas: Mary’s 2 books, Tony Turner’s book (“ALL That Glittered, and Randy Taraborelli’s “Call Her Miss Ross.” When reading them, it is important to sift through the “agendas” and try to ascertain the facts. There are thousands of photo images of The Supremes. The “Motown Album” to which you refer has chosen to publish a few of them. The photos in the book are obviously Diane oriented. The section beginning on page 140 (“Set Me Free”) proves the point. There are photos where Diane looks the best, some where Mary does, and fewer where Flo does. Any of those photos could be used to further whatever the “agenda” is. The bottom line: Most people felt that Flo had the pipes, Mary was the most beautiful, and Diane was the most glamorous, had the most unique voice, and a special stage charisma. The package was all wrapped up and it was called the Supremes. To say that Mary never had a Career??????? She was one of the Supremes for God’s sake. She never has to do another thing. She can make money singing Supremes songs with or without a “good” voice for the rest of her life. Diane’s voice is “shot” and she is still singing. There are facts here and the contoversy surrounding Diane is contained within the 64 comments entered within this site. I have not attacked anyone personally; although, many of you have said very nasty things to me. I have spoken my mind about Diane. She is near and dear to my heart as one of the Supremes and I have “issues” with her from about 1967 on. If I saw her on the street, I would call her Diane. I would also communicate to her that I was one of the biggest fans of her talents and show business accomplishments. I would also discuss my issues. I would like to think that we would connect on some level and that she would really be interested in hearing from someone who was an informed and one time devoted fan. I have avoided Diane all these years because I’m not sure how I would react if her wicked side came out. We would either become great friends or one of us would get arrested. I hope that Diane has read the comments that have been written here. Maybe it will give her some insight into why there is a cloud of controversy that follows her solo career. I really don’t think that she understands it any better than some of you; however, I would like to have the chance to talk to her some day if she would be open to it. Maybe she could change my mind and give me new insights. Who knows, I would be open to talking with her. REN and Juan: You seem to be very informed about The Supremes; however, you seem to be as bitter about Mary and Flo as I am about Diane. Flo is dead and Mary knows the power of the “Supremes” sympathy card and she plays it whenever she needs to. Diane should know that Mary will “trump” her whenever it comes to playing on the Supremes’ legacy. How can you say that Mary was wrong on the RTL tour. Diane should have known better! She should have known that Mary would get the attention of the press and do her in which is exactly what she did and will do again if given the opportunity. If Diane ever intended to have a Supremes reunion, Mary should have been there and Diane and her people should have made it happen. They didn’t. They should have known what Mary would do to them. That’s my whole point. Diane is so deluded into believing her own “agenda” that she was oblivious to reality. That is what caused the problem…..Diane’s inability to perceive reality. She should have known that the RTL tour without Mary would have spelled disaster, it did, and the whole thing blew up in her face. Mary may have thrown “the apple cart over,” but Diane should have known that she could and she would!Mary possesses the Supremes’ legacy and she holds on tightly to it. Can you really blame her? Read over the 64 comments that are written here. It is all here from both sides. I have used facts and some of you have also used facts. Others of you have just been nasty and as bitter toward me as I have been toward some of Diane’s behaviors. As for as this being a site for the 30 year old CD, “Blue?” Everyone has been jumping all over me and accusing me of everything under the sun. I also think that I could have some pretty good conversations with REN and Juan if we could just put away our differences about Diane and focus upon those parts of her career on which we all agree.
Neil…. You say ” I have not attacked anyone personally ” yet in comment 14, you open with ” With Diane’s voice and image having been in deterioration for years ” In comment 26 you write ” her voice is shot” In comment 38 you refer to her as ” A washed up old drunk who can no longer sing” comment 51 you say ” Diane has finally lost her mind ” comment 55 you say ” she is a wicked aging egomanical drunk whose best days are way behind her” and in comment 64 you repeat ” her voice is shot ” and ” if her wicked side came out ”
And then you turn around and say I have not attacked anyone personally?? come on please how can you say that??? am I not reading what is there in black and white??
Neil this site is for people to leave their views about the reviewed album ” Blue ” you have turned it into ” Neil’s Let Me Vent About Diana/Diane Ross Show ” and to those of us who really admire Diana Ross, who enjoy her music, who enjoy her concerts who were ” Raised on Ross ” if you will, will surely come to her defense. Many people still enjoy Diana Ross I know I do I can even say that I LOVE her even though I never really met her aside from a hug and a kiss at TWO of her concerts. Her music has been in my life for over fourty years now, I still get goose bumps listening to her. As I sit and write this I am listening to her voice and it has the same effect on my now as when I first heard it and that effect would be pure enjoyment her voice still does it for me in a sense it was and is the soundtrack of mine and MANY peoples lives. When she puts a record, cd or cassette out I will RUN right out and buy it why? I can’t really explain. And NO I don’t hate Mary Wilson I just strongly disagree with some of her actions when it comes to my all time favorite preformer, Diana Ross. and yes Neil we could have some pretty good conversations about all this, but you would have to check some of your attitude at the door as would I. If you ever get to Maui look me up. Just follow the sound of Diana Ross and you will find me there with a smile on my face and goose bumps on my arms. I wish you nothing but peace, really.
To Neil: What a hypocrite you are….
I said that I have not attacked any of you personally . I have and will speak my mind about Diane and will continue to do so. Apparently, as witnessed by REN’s comments, people aren’t reading very closely. They are more intent in attacking me personally.
I said that I have not attacked anyone personally. I was speaking about the people on this sight. I also said that I would contine to speak my mind about Diane. Many of my comments on her are personal, I will admit. Again, I will continue to speak my mind about her. I apologize for the miscommunication.
I think you really hit the nail on the head about Mary not wanting to be a second class player. I think that old green envy monster got the best of her yet again. I’m in my 30’s, so I became a Diana Ross fan first in the early 80’s when I was 12 years old. I then started hearing all the old Supremes songs on the radio and one by one I started to like all of the old Supremes hits. In the early 80’s, a lot of the kids started to get into the 60’s music (very much like some of the kids are now getting into the 80’s music)and that’s what happened to me. It amazed me at the time how she was all over the radio, and then I saw her diana special in 1981 from the Forum in Los Angeles. Then to top it off I thought it was cool how she went back to the 60’s and had all the great songs from the Supremes days. You’re right in the sense that I’m frustrated with Mary the same way you are with Diana. I know that a lot of people that have worked with Mary for years were very pissed off when she didn’t agree to do the RTL tour, because they had stuck with her all those lean years making little money, and she was blowing an opportunity for them to finally make some real money. I do think she started to feel those old angry jealous feelings again toward Diana and I think that had a lot to do with her not doing it. It would also make her look like a hypocrite after writing about how horrible she thought Diana was.I think what really started to make Mary so angry was when her solo career never took off, and I think by the 80’s she started to realize it wasn’t going to happen. She then decided to make herself a martyr, and blame Diana for everything from her career not taking off to global warming, and that’s ridiculous. She really does need therapy to get over all that extreme jealousy. It’s not Diana’s fault. The thing about the Supremes is they were all such young kids during those days that they really all deserve a little bit of a pass on things that may have gone down. Things that you read about Diana in her book are really petty and ridiculous. You can look at pretty much any group, and there’s usually a star and a stand out in all instances. When you consider how Diana did more work and got paid the same, and didn’t want to make more, what really is the problem here? What the hell did Diana really do wrong? I’m sure there’ all kinds of dirty laundry in every group, but the difference is that Mary chose to capitilize on spreading the Supremes’ at Diana’s expense.
Neil allow me if you will to mention that yes Mary Wilson has had a successful career,a very successful in fact, as a BACK UP SINGER for Diana Ross and or anyone else who fronted the Supremes. Her solo career speaks for itself as does that of Diana Ross, while listening to a Diana Ross cd today it hit me that on these recordings she is using back up singers who sing the parts that, had she remained with the Supremes would have been covered by Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong and or whoever was hired to fill in for the two. I believe a group called the Antendnes (sp?) were used on Love Child and Someday We’ll Be Together. It is rather logical that as she could sell and promote herself as a single artist that she do so, allowing her more artistic freedom if you will, as well as of course more money.
You speak of yourself as ” Christopher Columbus ” well fine, then my advice to you is to sail off into the sunset taking your lunacy with you. And do remember Christopher Columbus wasn’t try to reach the new world he was seeking a trade route to the East Indies so in a sense he was wrong about his beliefs too.
REN
Juan, I appreciate your devotion to Diane. Since you weren’t there in the 1960’s you have to rely on what has been written. What has been written is largely revisionist history. At the time of their reign on the charts, the Supremes were a group with a lead singer, a very interesting lead singer. If you heard their song on the radio, you would think, “Oh, there are the Supremes.” Even if you heard Diane’s voice by herself, you still thought, “oh, there are the Supremes.” Diane had no identity out of the Supremes. I guess it was much like Bobby Hatfield singing “Unchained Melody” without Bill Medley. It was still the “Righteous Brothers.” No one knew that there was trouble in the group. We could suspect. By 1967, the name was changed. We all knew then that is was changed to give Diane an identity in her preparation to go solo. That was never publicly stated. No one ever called them “Diana Ross and The Supremes” except when they were formally introduced on a TV show. To America, they were still the Supremes. Slowly, it became all about Diane. No one asked for it to be all about her. The TCB special was ruined for Supremes and Temptations fans by her being thrust upon us as a solo act. This was all being done by Berry Gordy and Diane to the regret of most of the American public. This is when she became controversial and many people began to despise her. When she became a solo act, Berry worked very hard to promote his solo star (again) at the expense of The Supremes who received very little of Berry’s attention after Diane left. The best songs and the best material were given to her. Berry moved into the movies. Her first one was critically acclaimed. A new generation of teenagers who weren’t there for the Supremes started to embrace her and she found a group of new fans as well as the ones she still had from the Supremes days. Although only a few of the Supremes’ hits were produced as Diana Ross and The Supremes, for 20 years, Motown released everything in the Supremes’ catalogue as Diana Ross and The Supremes. It has only been in the past 6 years that the CD’s by the Supremes are being released again as simply “The Supremes.” The boxed set is one example. The #1’s CD is entitled, “Diana Ross and The Supremes”; however, it shows photos of the Supremes on the front and back despite that it also contains Diane’s Solo recordings. The most recent CD containing their hits is simply called The Supremes. When Mary and Cindy were not on a particular recording, it was not made public. We simply thought that they were being made to sound different in the studio. Berry was preparing the public to stop associating Diane’s voice with Mary and Cindy. I guess there is one more thing here, Juan. Have you ever tried to sing background harmony? It is much more difficult to sing harmony than it is to sing the melody. Also, the Supremes had to learn choreography and go to the same rehearsals and gown fittings as Diane. In conclusion, everything that has come from Motown in the first 25 years of Diane’s solo career is “Diane skewed.”
As for Mary: she is jealous of Diane’s solo career….but I think that she is more angry over the way things played out in the final 18 months of the Supremes while Diane was there. I’m sure it was humiliating for her. I know that I was furious and I was just a fan.
Everytime the Supremes were on TV, they would be farther away from Diane. On the “TCB” special she sang “Somewhere” alone on the stage with Mary and Cindy’s voices backing her up from off stage. This was infuriating for the Supremes fans. All of the information that we now know has come out over the years after the fact. Most of it has been written either by Motown to promote Diane or by Diane fans. There is no one promoting the Supremes today. There hasn’t been for nearly 30 years. Motown promotes them as one of the Motown acts. Lord, they put Motown on the map. Diane’s people promote the Supremes as a stepping stone in Diane’s solo career. There would be no solo career if she wasn’t with the Supremes. She helped to make them and they made her. I guess this is what makes me bitter against Diane and Motown. Mary is the only person who legitimately possesses the Supremes’ legacy. That is why she does what she does…to make sure that the legendary Supremes have their proper place in history. The music is still magic and that keeps the legacy going as well. I’m happy that you have cued into the career of Diane, Juan. We’re all very happy to have her special music. I am especially sad, however, that so many of you younger people were born too late to experience first-hand the phenomenon that was The “super duper” Supremes. They were really something! Diane was really something in those days as well! Her voice was a nasal cooing that cut like a knife between Flo’s soprano and Mary’s alto voice to create a sound so unique it will never be able to be created again. I am so conditioned to that sound that hearing Diane’s solo voice or Mary’s solo voice just doesn’t do it for me. I also didn’t much care for the sound of the Supremes after Flo and H+D+H left Motown. Most music critics agree that the music died for the Supremes in 1967. Despite the fact that they became more dazzling and glamorous than ever after this time, I tend to agree with them
REN, Once again you are attacking me personally. Now I’m a lunatic? Christopher Columbus did in fact prove that the world was round…he just didn’t realize it during his lifetime. The analogy that I was making was that he had to argue the truth (his belief that the world was round) when everyone believed a lie (that the world was flat).
I am trying to argue a truth (The Supremes) when many people on this site believe a lie (“Diana Ross”).
Diana Ross can also claim rights to the “Supremes legacy” and credit for all the hits created therein wouldn’t you agree? I fail to understand why you contuine to post in this forum. Are you trying to rewrite history? Do you derive some type of satifaction from your rantings? what exactly are you after? What has happened has happened, 37 years ago I might add. it is all in the past let it go unless of course it happened to you personally and that WOULD make you Mary Wilson ( I for one and beginning to really think you are )
You Neil are entitled to your opinon but so is everyone else.
Neil, you are a lunatic….
I have made my points. You are right, REN, Diane can also claim rights to the Supremes’ legacy as one of the Supremes (not as THE only Supreme}! I think that I have made it perfectly clear what I am after and why I am after it. I, Ren, have never said that you are not entitled to your opinions. Also, I have not and will not attack you personally. I am merely interested in WRITING history as opposed to RE-WRITING it as it has been done over the years to promote Diane’s solo career.
Neil since you are not a original Supreme or a replacement Supreme your knowledge, ” your truths ” can only be considered hearsay at best. You have no first hand knowledge nor were you witness to any of the actions of which you speak. ALL the information you have gathered is second hand and as such is very subjective allowing you to interject your take on a situation you really know nothing about. IAgain I ask you, Neil why do you continue to post your rabid ravings on this site? please do us ALL a favor and GO AWAY.(Edited by moderator)
Ren, Please tell me what difference anything you said in comment 76 makes I can counter anything you say to defend Diane with other things to indict her. Where is that going to get anyone? Pulling these little incidental “facts?” out of context of what actually happened doesn’t prove or disprove anything.
( to finish comment 75) little about you.
Neil again I state ; This space is for people to leave their review of the Blue album not for the “Neil Rant and Rave Show ”
why do you post your misdirected anger here. What has Diana Ross done to YOU PERSONALLY to warrent such actions?? Of course you have the right to post but wouldn’t they be better suited for a other forum. This whole situation is quite frankly boring me. I wish you well and hope you do get yourself some help in dealing with your Diana Ross obsession.
Thank you for tiring of your insults toward me, Ren. Yes, this is a forum to post comments about a 30 year old album, “Blue” by Diana Ross — “the wicked very young (30 years ago), the wicked very old (today at age 62).” Nothing seems to have changed much except her voice.
Neil well at least you refer to her as Diana it is a step in the right direction on your much needed path to recovery. Bravo!PS As you were there by your own addmission you too have grown ” wickedly very old ” no wonder you are so bitter must be the ” Reflections ” you encounter in your “Mirrior, Mirror. Maybe you should try to Reach Out And Touch Somebody’s Hand, before yo turn ” Upside Down ” with a ” Love Hangover ” And do “Remember Me” as perhaps ” Someday We’ll Be Together my “Love Child”
Peace to you Neil.
REN
Lord, REN, you are really something…….I thought that you were wishing me well! Excuse me for not putting the name in quotes…”Diana Ross.” Isn’t that what Diane is calling herself these days?
Ahh Neil you seem to be having a relapse I do wish you well, my ” Baby Love ” truly! I thought my response was rather witty, snappy patter, if you will allow. Yes she is calling herself ” Diana Ross ” “These days ” has been calling herself that for well over thirty years now,as would be her right and how wonderful of you to join the rest of the world in your recognition of that fact.As I stated many comments earlier you have your opinion and I have mine. Lets let bygones be bygones and agree to disagree. Let the bugles ring truce. You know recently a copy of her Box Office Record Breaking Show,the one she got a TONY for, “An Evening With Diana Ross” sold on Ebay for well over one hundred dollars( $100.00) and prior the it’s reissue the cd titled simply “Ross” was fetching well over eighty dollars ($80.00). For the week of September,2 2006 Diana Ross’ ” Blue ” is listed at #7 on Billboards Top Jazz Releases, it has been on the charts for 10( count em!)weeks having peaked at #2!!. I myself have already pre-ordered 3 copies of the forth coming release titled ” I Love You ” ( christmas presents ) and am looking forward to its release. Shall we spar here when that release gets reviewed? UN GARDE Neil UN GARDE.
And thank you for saying that I am ” Something ” you are ” Something Else” Nice of you to call me ” Lord ” however REN will do.
Peace
It’s obvious, Neil that you have a strong dislike toward Diana, and that you gain satisfaction in her personal and career disappointments. Even if I don’t understand it, it’s your prerogative. I don’t remember the Supremes’ days, because I wasn’t born until the late 60’s. My first Memory of Diana Ross was “Lady Sings The Blues” and “Touch Me In The Morning” and I became a fan in 1980, and then subsequently the Supremes’ material in 1981 and 1982 when I bought the Anthology album. At that time I became aware of Mary, Florence and Cindy. I really don’t have an issues with Florence or Cindy. I do think Florence, like many of us, brought on most of her own problems, but if Florence was alive I really don’t think she would agree with or pull the crap that Mary has. Although I don’t remember those early days, I have spoke to many people involved and did plenty of research, so I think I have a pretty good grasp of how things went down. We obviously have different perspectives. Not everything Diana has recorded has done well commercially, but I always admired how she never played it safe and recorded different types of music. She wasn’t afraid to fail. She also pulls from a big Internatinal market, so she’s always done well over all. A lot of people do the same music, the same producers, and I think she had a nice ride at radio of over 20 years in America and 35 years elsewhere. Mary is the one that’s acted like a bitch and blamed Diana for all sorts of petty things, and used every opportunity to bait her. I think Diana has remained remarkably restrained.
Hi all, I saw Mary Wilson in a Motown revue concert in Manchester Uk about 10 years ago. I can honestly say that it was a sad spectacle. She has not got an ounce of Diana’s talent, style and voice. All I can say is ‘talent will out’. When you’ve had a career as long as Diana and can still captivate a huge audience that shows what a true superstar Diana really is! Greetings from the UK!
Join the rest of the world in recognition of that fact?????????? You mean the rest of this web-site, don’t you? I think your adoration of Diane as a solo act is just a bit skewed, don’t you? ……….the rest of the world! Ha!! That’s a hot one! I also especially like the comment that everything Diane has done commercially as a solo act has been a success. You “Ross” fans are hysterical!
In recognition of what fact??????????????? If you look again, I said that not everything Ross released did well commercially. One thing is a fact, NOTHING that Mary Wilson did was a success.
ha ha ha ha hilarious….
You all seem to forget that Mary Wilson was one of the original Supremes! For that, she is a celebrity for life. She can sing the Supremes songs forever with different background singers just like Diane does. She has just as much right to those songs as Diane. You all prove my points over and over again. If Mary Wilson is a no talent want- to- be with a horrible voice, why can she make over a million dollars each year singing Supremes songs…….the reason is that she is a legend from the Supremes. She never has to do anything else. Diane is a legend from the Supremes as well. She doesn’t need to do anything else either.
Diane sings those songs without the original background singers. Why don’t you jump on her for that? I always thought it was a “stitch” that Diane supposedly went solo. She left the Supremes with 3 singers to add everyone who was in the Motown studios to back her up. In “Ain’t No Mountain High Enough,” it sound like the Mormon Tabernacle Choir is behind her. Actually, there are so many people singing on that record that you could take her voice out and you wouldn’t know she was missing. That’s a solo career?
Need I remind you that Diane as “Diana Ross” hasn’t had much of a career either for the past 20 something years. Don’t knock Mary’s career, Diana doesn’t have much of one either except as an “oldies” act. She happens to be able to play bigger venues than Mary. That’s the only difference. After all, she was the lead singer of the Supremes and Berry Gordy pushed her name out there for the next 10 years or so. Actually, it was stuffed down everyone’s throat! Just like you people continue to do!{Edited by moderator}
You hate Diana, Neil. It is pretty pitiful. Hating a woman who has never harmed you in anyway. Hating a woman who you accuse of all sorts of evil deeds, which you have no proof of. You are so prejudiced against her that there is no credibility in your slanted arguments of hatred.
You need help. You really do….. I feel sorry for you in away. It’s like you are trapped in a timewarp. Trapped in a time long ago, while the rest of the world has moved on.
I love Diana, always have and always will. She has touched me in ways that a person such as youself could not begin to fathom. It’s called love. You know that thing that is the opposite of hate. Oh well, I give up. There is no point in explaining the obvious to a mind that has been dulled by a obsession to dethrone a Queen….. It’s like trying to see in the dark. Impossible.
Diana’s the BOSS, a fabulous talent – we’ll still be hearing her songs in 50 years.
Neil, Neil, Neil,No one has forgotten that Mary Wilson was an original Supreme, however she was a “Background” Supreme at best and NEVER sang lead on a Supreme hit, get that NEVER EVER! While it may be true she can sing the Supremes songs with other background singers the parts that she tries sing now were sung by the “original” lead singer, Diana Ross.
I’ve seen Mary Wilson in concert at a supper club in Chicago yes I admit the woman has a presence,however she lacks the talent to be the Superstar that Miss Ross is. Mary Wilson will go down in history as one of the “original Supremes” and that would be about all she will be known for, Diana however will be remembered for much much more. That is the reason we are here speaking about her Blue release and not chatting up a storm about Mary Wilson’s new release, there was only one no? Red Hot I think it was called.
To say “Ain’t No Mountain High Enough” would be the same without her voice is confirmation of your utter lunacy whos voice would you use to replace it?Mary’s?
You Neil don’t even give Diana Ross credit for the talent that she does have much like Mary Wilson because lets face it if it had not of been for Diana Ross Mary Wilson would of never gotten out of Detroit much less the getto she would of ended up living on Welfare having fatherless children just like her mother who I would like to add could neither read or write, while Diana Ross’ parents were both very well educated and MARRIED giving Diana a good foundation, none of which either Mary od Florence had to begin with and it shows. Have you LISTENED to the Supremes music at all??? Listen to the parts Mary Wilson does sing OOOs and AHHs and repeating the lines that the lead singer sings. When Cindy Birdsong replaced Florence at the Hollywood Bowl no one even noticed the focus was on Diana Ross. Neil if Mary Wilson would of had the chance to of gone “Solo” don’t you think she would have?
Time will prove you wrong you silly silly child in fact it already has.
Oh yes I need to mention that Miss Wilson has a new release. Oh sorry that would be Nancy Wilson the singer. {Edited by moderator}
It’s horrible how extreme your hatred is toward Diana. Whether you like it or not Neil, Diana’s voice was the lead. You talk about how horrible Diana is and hasn’t had a career in recent years, but Mary has not had a career. {Edited by moderator}
I have never disputed Diane’s talent. I have simply said that her talent was in its prime when she was paired with H-D-H, Mary Wilson, Flo Ballard, and Berry Gordy, When any of those variables were changed, her “talent” was diminished. Yes, Diane helped to make the Supremes and the Supremes made Diane. The farther away from the original Supremes one gets, the less impressive Diane’s vocals become. Also, I have never compared Mary’s talents with Diane’s. There is no comparison; however,I will continue to defend Mary’s right to sing the Supremes songs and to be the guardian of the Supremes’ legacy whether she was a background singer or not. George Harrison and Ringo Starr were also background singers. My opinions about Diane are so strong primarily because she and her fans want to make it all about “her.” It wasn’t and it isn’t. Any one of the Supremes songs or Diane’s “solo” records would have been hits no matter who sang them…..they were that good. If Mary sang, “Baby Love” it wouldn’t have been as good, but it would still have been a hit with Motown promoting it in 1964. I find that I need to repeat myself bacause you all have “blinders” on when it comes to Diane. You all say such nasty things to me. What confuses me is that you use words such as mean, spiteful, and hateful to describe me. Those are words that are usually associated with Diane and you adore her for it.
You are a pitiful mess Neil or whatever your name is. Crazy is a good word to describe your rantings. Actually you are pretty funny in a bizarre sort of way. Sorta like a comedian from another dimension in space and time. Get help, please get help!!!! From DIANA’S adoring fan……………
Moja, You can take all the personal “cracks” that you want against me…..you seem to enjjoy it; however, everything I have said remains unchanged. When you say that you love Diane and she has touched you in ways that I can’t imagine………..if you walked up to her, she wouldn’t give you the time of day. I remember when I was in New York and she was in a restaurant, alone, and waiting to be seated. A little girl with a violin case walked up to her and asked for an autograph. She flatly refused even though there were no others around and she had nothing else to do. Is that how she has touched you in ways that I can’t imagine? You’re right! I can’t imagine how evil and ego-centric she can be. You really wouldn’t like her if you knew her, Moja. You’re wildly deluded by the “Ross” razzle dazzle. She may be likeable on stage…..you wouldn’t want to be anywhere near her off-stage.l
Cindy Adams reported that Diana was leaving the studio in New York after recording all night only to notice a group of Sailors ( it was fleet week ) asking for her autograph, She complied then got in her limo and drove off only to turn around, head back toward the sailors and asked them if they wanted to hear her new record. They said yes and she took them into the studio and let them hear her recordings.
Also there is a web site that is run by one of her fans, he recently lost his two grandsons in a tragic fire and posted his feelings on the site explaining that he would not be able to focus on the site for the time being because of what had happened.Diana Ross sent flowers to the funeral home and call the man personally to lend her support.
I also understand she called Mary Wilson when Miss Wilson’s son passed away.
These are only a few of the reasons that Diana Ross is so loved.
Neil now you say ANY of Diana Ross’ hits would of been hits no matter who sang them, That comment alone only proves how much you really hate Diana Ross and refuse to face reality. I suppose next you will be blaming her for the price of gas and global warming.
REN, The Supremes songs have been successfully recorded by other artists: Baby Love, You Can’t Hurry Love, Where Did Our Love Go, You Keep Me Hangin’ on, Love Child, etc. They were hits by other artisits after the Supremes hit with them. Have you forgotten that “Ain’t No Mountain High Enough” was a hit for Marvin Gaye and Tammi Terrell first? “Reach Out” was recorded by Four Tops first. Those songs were so incredible, they were bound to be hits by whoever sang them. Yes, once again I reiterate: “If Mary Wilson had sang lead on “Baby Love” it would still have been a hit (although no where near as good) if Motown had promoted and pushed it in 1964.
Flo could have sang lead on it too. It probably wouldn’t have mattered. Most of the sopngs that survive with Mary and Flo singing lead were never intended as single releases, just album fillers. If they had intended for the Supremes to have a hit with Mary or Flo on lead, the song and the arrangements would have been tailored to their voices just as the they were to suit Diane’s. The lead voice would have been coached and rehearsed over and over until they got the sound they wanted. Diane on lead was a successful, winning formula, but remember, there were numerable flops with Diane’s voice until they got the right song, arrangement, and vocal coaching results. I would have put my money on Diane as lead as well; however, with the same songs, the same coaching, and the same promotion, any or all of the Supremes hits would still have been hits if Berry Gordy wanted them to be. He knew how to promote his stars. There would have been no Supremes or no “Diana Ross” without him.
I still say you are a mess. We all choose what we want to see, hear, and what we want to take from the experience called life you are choosing the opposite of heaven on earth. Diana is so far ahead of you spiritually that the only thing she could do for you is pray.
You choose not to see the good that defines this woman. It says much more about you then her. As far as my cracks against you go, what do you expect. We always get what we put out there. It’s called “just desserts”. This is my last post. I am bored now….{edited by moderator}
Well, at least Moja will stop taking personal jabs at me if she is true to her word that this is her last post. All I have tried to do is temper the extreme and skewed credit that Diane has been given by the the fans on this web-site. Such extreme fawning has caused me to go to the other extreme to bring some moderation to this excessive “Ross” adulation. I’ve been accused of being Mary Wilson. What Mary and I do have in common is trying to preserve a legacy of the Supremes that includes an ensemble of individuals that formed to create a legend. Diane is part of that legend, a large part of that legend; however, it is not now nor has it ever been just about her except maybe to Berry Gordy. I’ll repeat: Berry Gordy may have loved Diane, but America loved the Supremes. Berry Gordy created his own monster……the incrdible success of the Supremes. That, right there is the source of the “Diana Ross” controversy. The “Ross” fans love her and the people who didn’t make the transition to her solo career despise her. Sadly, at this point, most people don’t care one way or the other anymore. What we all have in common is that we do still care……you all care about “Diane” and I care about the Supremes. I guess somewhere in the middle between what I am saying and what you are saying lies the real truth.