cover story: trey anastasio
Trey Anastasio
No Surrender
Everyone knows someone who won’t eat fish or seafood and that person doesn’t have a good excuse for it. Some friends of mine once slipped one of our kin — we’ll call her “Wendy” — lobster bisque at a wedding telling her it was tomato soup. After “Wendy” devoured it ravenously, she learned its origin and proceeded to give the vomit face, even though it was the Champagne that eventually did her in.
True to its homophone, there are people who loved the veteran jam act Phish, and then there were scores who loathed the band without ever hearing it. Rarely was the band the culprit; most adversaries admittedly point to its fans’ hippie culture as the source of alienation. Now this retarded point of view threatens to trickle into the solo career of Phish’s former frontman, Trey Anastasio.
“I notice that more often when people ask me who I’m listening to,” he says, “and I’m always kind of surprised. It comes up again and again. People think there’s this little plastic bubble around this jam band scene and it just isn’t that way. I like music; I like good music. When I started playing with my other band, which is this 10-piece band with a horn section, a lot of people would come to that who felt uncomfortable around the Phish scene.
“They didn’t feel like they were part of the club.”
With the release of Shine (Columbia), there’s a new club forming. Though it’s not Anastasio’s solo debut, it is a new record label and his first album post-Phish. It’s also the 10-year anniversary of Jerry Garcia’s death, approximately the time jam band fans handed the crown to him.
Five years after coronation, Phish was on hiatus. “And then I committed the ultimate sin, I said ‘I don’t want to be that,’ and walked away,” Anastasio laughs.
Like he says, in 2004 Phish — disillusioned by expectations, the effort, and what was actually being produced — was done.
“I’ve certainly heard some anger about that. Do you know this guy Krishnamurti? He was a guy who was groomed in the ’20s or ’30s or something to take over this organization called The Order Of The Star, it was almost like a Dalai Lama situation. From birth [they said] ‘This is the guy who’s gonna lead us to salvation.’ And for his first 20 years of his life he was trained in spiritual books and read all this stuff. There were thousands and thousands of people in this Order Of The Star — a big club. And he gave a speech which has now gone down in history as one of the best-written, spiritual speeches, called Krishnamurti’s “Dissolution Of The Order Of The Star.” People read it all the time because what he did was he got up and said, ‘If you want me to be a spiritual leader, I quit, and I’m also dissolving this organization, ’cause that’s not how you find spirituality.’ What he was trying to say to everybody was if there’s something you’re looking for, you’ve got to look at yourself and stop looking at me.”
So Anastasio, drummer John Fishman, bassist Mike Gordon, and keyboardist Page McConnell set the mantle down where it remains, vied for by the likes of Widespread Panic, The String Cheese Incident, moe., and whichever posse of Grateful Dead mates is storming the sheds. While it may have appeared, at first, Anastasio was now free to pursue his myriad projects (including Oysterhead with Primus’ Les Claypool and ex-Police drummer Stewart Copeland), he’s at a point now where he can take his daughters to an “American Girl” outing.
“If you had an eight or 10-year-old daughter you’d know what I was talking about. It’s like a thing where you bring your doll to a lunch thing — your American Girl doll; it’s a very rock ‘n’ roll thing to be doing,” he chuckles. The idea is to get back to simplicity for him, to, not lose control, but not put himself in a position where things need catering to.
“Look at the similarities between Surrender To The Air [his star-studded ‘96 solo debut] and Shine. After this album came out, [I noted] this is more like Surrender To The Air than anything I’ve ever done. From an intent standpoint, the quote that spurred the idea of that album, the quote is ‘Surrender to the air and you can ride it,’ a Toni Morrison thing. And then this album, the lyrics and addressing that over and over and over again. That effortlessness is the ultimate goal. I know they don’t sound [musically] anything like each other, but in my heart they are. Essentially it’s the same path.”
He continues, “This album, even though it’s sort of a pop album, the intent is to talk about that, because of the fact that the center had been broken up, I was able to get on a plane with a backpack alone and go down to Atlanta and start writing music — without the bigness. The ship was getting so big it was getting hard to turn. With opinions and bills to pay and all that stuff.”
The luxury Anastasio ended up with in Shine is an album that doesn’t pander to anyone. You’d never draw parallels between it and the guy whose 60-minute live albums comprise five songs or who may have created studio albums as an excuse to tour again. It isn’t the watered-down approximations of hamfisted followers like The Why Store, nor is it the pull-out-your-music-theory-charts work of someone in a Miles Davis phase.
He is non-committal, however, when it comes to outlining a future. “The good thing is that all the songs are proving to be really rockin’ songs live. ‘Tuesday’ is just slammin’ and ‘Shine’ is great live and ‘Spin’ is another example, ‘Come As Melody’ — they’re all, all 12 of them are pretty solid, so I have a lot of other stuff I’ve kind of been doing but it’ll be, I think it’s kinda gonna go a little bit . . . I enjoy the process of watching the stuff evolve.” With Anastasio, “evolve” can be a tricky word, because it takes place tangentially, quickly, and without warning.
“I do have a lot of projects,” he admits. “Do people grumble about that? This is it for awhile. The band that I’ve got I’m sticking with. What I found was when I did Seis De Mayo, the instrumental album, I put my heart into that and I was more concerned that I was putting a lot more heart into it than the last couple of Phish records. Things were kind of changing and that because so much effort and heart had been put into Phish for so long, that was kind of the point. It’s like, ‘Let’s not just keep this thing going just because it’s there.’ That started even back in the late ’90s when Mike started working on his movies and stuff. We weren’t really around each other much anymore. All through the ’80s we used to spend seven or eight hours a day practicing. Then everybody changed, got married, and that happens. So I started doing other projects, Page started doing other projects, and now my heart is fully in what I’m doing right now. So the band that’s gonna go out on tour in November — that’s it. I’m sticking with that band. Skeeto [Valdez, drums] and Tony [Hall, bass] made a commitment.”
So keep all Phish questions at bay, because they’re not getting back together anytime soon . . . right?
“It’s so funny that nobody’s asked me that! We’re definitely not now, and I would never do that because it was all the rage. All I’ll say to that is I’ve said so many stupid things in the past, that have come out of my mouth, if there’s one thing I’m finally starting to learn is I don’t know what’s going to happen. But I’d like to play music for a long time and I love those guys. Who knows?”
We’ll just have to work up an appetite for Phish.
– Steve Forstneger
Appearing: November 4 at NIU Convocation Center (1525 W. Lincoln Hwy) in DeKalb.
Tags:
on November 3rd, 2005 at 8:41 pm
that last qiestion is getting a lot of response on various phish sites.
on November 3rd, 2005 at 10:31 pm
a lot of response indeed. debates are fierce over the veracity of said interview. feel free to put them to rest - phantasytour is the most accessible (most popular) of the websites thesedays.
on November 3rd, 2005 at 10:51 pm
Great interview from Steve Forstneger; possibly just great quotes though. Rather open-ended on the last question—but great way to end it. May Phish find their way back together only when the bopper-hype has gone finally on its way. Trey w/ brass deserves the attention. I wish him well!
on November 3rd, 2005 at 10:58 pm
I LOVE the new album Shine!!
I didn’t know Trey had been playing music all these years. ??
Anyway, I will be voting for him for best new artist for the Peoples Choice.
-Tori!
on November 4th, 2005 at 3:23 am
Welcome back Trey!
perhaps the sleeper has awoken!!! quoting k…trey just needs a little something to rub up against…having said that, he really is moving…not sure about the particulars–but sure hope for his and ours that he “plays through it” and delivers us to some un-”chahtered” territory, where we discover something that otherwise we might not have known existed. like patience and a healthy appreciation for process, let’s not under-estimate the compound essence of time.
i am sure people pooh poohed picasso for what he was up to with braque and they certainly trashed mile’s for hanging with betsy and the music he produced with jarret and chic and airto etc. so who knows where trey will end up in the grand scheme of things–but one things for sure there is enough friction here to start a fire.
on November 4th, 2005 at 8:19 am
Please play Fluffhead acoustic…
Love,
PT
on November 4th, 2005 at 9:57 am
::masturbates furiously::
on November 4th, 2005 at 10:00 am
Please don’t play Fluffhead accoustic.
PT knows not what is asks for
on November 4th, 2005 at 10:03 am
For the record, I said no.
on November 4th, 2005 at 10:12 am
mrfm2d
siihb?
on November 4th, 2005 at 10:17 am
pop yer hood
on November 4th, 2005 at 11:31 am
Great article. I just received the Shine DualDisc package and gave it a watch/listen. I have to say, I’m impressed, especially with the live show. He’s played around a lot with his line up, and while I did enjoy the horns tremendously, I can understand that such a big band is not really sustainable on the road. But this line up now, especially that he’s brought Jenn back into the fold, is superb. WHEW! I was worried because the last show I heard was that train wreck from 4/1/05. Oh boy, that was foul. I figured I’d lay off and then give Trey another shot with SHINE. It has exceeded my expectations. What’s really great is you can see how much Trey is really enjoying himself, and that’s what makes for his best music. Now, about that canceled Tampa show….!
on November 4th, 2005 at 11:40 am
just get the band back together already
on November 4th, 2005 at 12:16 pm
5 song 60 minute live album, huh? example?
the last few phish records had personality at least. i found shine unlistenable.
on November 4th, 2005 at 12:23 pm
how many times will the mainsteam have to reject trey?
come home trey
they don’t want you
on November 4th, 2005 at 12:56 pm
how many times has trey rejected what he was ’supposed’ to do. He and phish have always tried to break what is expected, and tread new ground.
on November 4th, 2005 at 2:24 pm
Well, Try when you went on hiatus you said “when you guys come back it will be for good”… You let alot of people down. Hopefully this breakup is not for ever….You had it Simple….
on November 4th, 2005 at 3:32 pm
play BBFCFM acoustic god dammit.
on November 4th, 2005 at 4:14 pm
In response to comment 14, “A Live One,” released in 1995, is roughly 130 minutes in length. Divided by its 12 songs, that’s nearly 11 minutes per song. 11 multiplied by 5 is 55 minutes, so if you must nitpick, congratulations, our statement is inaccurate.
– Editor
on November 4th, 2005 at 4:35 pm
A vetern of 50 plus Phish shows (most in the mid to late nineties) and I am totally on board with Trey’s new lineup. Saw the Philly show in August. The band was rockin’ and Trey’s guitar playing sounded more fresh & crisp than I’ve heard heard in quite a while. Can’t wait for the Tower show in 2 weeks!! Hopefully Shine is waiting for me in my mailbox. peace.
on November 4th, 2005 at 4:36 pm
love the american girl quote - I took my 8-year old daughter there when I was in NYC
on November 4th, 2005 at 5:08 pm
I am totally supportive of Trey and his attempts to satisfy himself creatively. Good article, too.
PS. Don’t go to PT for anything except to bitch about how much try sucks.
on November 4th, 2005 at 5:15 pm
true true PT complains bout everything, i dig the new stuff, but phish will always hold a special place for me.
We had it simple, cause we had a band
on November 4th, 2005 at 6:10 pm
even if trey got phish together tommorow, it would not be the same. that bird has flown, and whatever it was that made trey so spectacular left him long ago. he is now worse than middle of the road.
on November 4th, 2005 at 6:43 pm
Yo i read alot about phish and trey and since his new album has come out i have read alot of articles and this one so far is my favorite. Thankyou very much
chad from denver
on November 4th, 2005 at 9:25 pm
i just want to say i have been to every phish show and liked them all…well…sometimes Mike got on my nerves but besides that…nah strike that, Mikes–cool.
on November 4th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
I heard Jerry Garcia plays on Shine with Trey? Im sorry Im a noob to the jamsabands scene I have no idea. 15/F/OC.
PS. I love the String Jesus Incident.
on November 5th, 2005 at 12:07 am
FUCK YOU TREY!!!… and any of you people that think this is a good album… pull your heads out of your asses & go find a good copy of a Phish show circa 1994… hell, i’d rate “Round Room” & “Undermind” better than this piece of shit & they we’re HORRIBLE… damn you Trey, how could you do this to us?
on November 5th, 2005 at 9:21 am
SEE YOU at Roseland. It’s about time for a one hit wonder, Trey has done everything else. I hope he get some praise for a well put together album
on November 5th, 2005 at 11:27 am
As in most post-Coventry interviews, Trey really sounds like he’s trying to convince HIMSELF as much as us that the new band is great. The fact that he won’t rule out a Phish reunion speaks volumes. It won’t happen soon and may never, but he was ADAMANT up until now about definitely ruling it out completely in every interview. Real fans are fully aware why Phish had to end, but that very good reason doesn’t preclude at least a temporary reunion somewhere down the line.
on November 5th, 2005 at 12:35 pm
This comment section is starting to look just like PT! LMAO Don’t particurly care for shine, think hes got so much more in him, but have accepted the fact that it is after all Trey. If he wants to take a break and go short popy styl on us, then who are we to say, “no Trey, you suck” . Hopefully i will see him actually jam with the old crew in the future, but am not on Trey stryke untill then
on November 5th, 2005 at 1:37 pm
Comment 28 was nice. Great article. I really get the impression that people dwell on the past WAY too much. It was fun - unfogettable. Why are people so bitter about Phish? Seems a little selfish to me. I think a lot of those people need to get back to reality, and go listen to some music (because you love it) instead of lighting candles at a Phish vigil. There. I said it.
on November 5th, 2005 at 9:52 pm
Heres an idea. If you dont like trey’s new stuff, just explain why and move on. If your going to just talk shit, keep it to your damn self. Just because Phish broke up doesn’t mean you have to see shows with a Phish band member! Go check out STS9, Panic, Keller, Tea Leaf Green, or any other of the great, ever progressing bands around today. I think trey will stand in the middle of the stage for a couple years, then when he’s real bored, he will get the band back togeather, and they will sell out the staples center! By the way, how can you hate on someone like trey who has done so much in the past? If he plays a bad note, the right ones before it stay the same. sorry for the rant
on November 5th, 2005 at 10:11 pm
Im not quite a veteran of 15 shows, mostly down the stretch run of the last few years. Its obvious that the time and effort was not put in the last few tours. However, it didnt matter phish was something special. Something that will probably never happen again. An absolute phenomonon. This new band will not cross over into the mainstream, nor will it draw any following what so ever. They’ll be back!
on November 6th, 2005 at 2:34 am
Trey and phish are now different beast - comparing them is futile - and Trey is not going to give you that Phish connection with the past! If you want the Phish feeling try moe., Lotus or STS9, if you want pop-rock go to Trey!
on November 6th, 2005 at 8:29 am
2-28-03….epic, confirmed.
Trey, keep doing your thing. As we all grow older, we change. I’m glad to see you embrassing that, and not trying to hold on to what is long past. So many of us can’t find the courage to do that and move on.
“Who’s got my headies?”
on November 6th, 2005 at 9:39 pm
I do not like the new album but I am not going to desert Trey. I have seen him 5 times this year and I like this band. Mabey it’s Trey that I am going to see but, who cares. I love Trey and will go see him no matter what(even if he is urinating in my ear).
on November 6th, 2005 at 10:43 pm
Remember this…Phish was and always will be a phenomenon. Four musicians whose combined skills and personalities developed into a energy on stage that will never be mimicked again. Who else can play in front of 70,000 hungry fans without a hit single? Nobody, Period. What other band can fill the void left by them. I don’t think anyone can. If Trey thinks that his new projects will create that same atmosphere, he has got his work cut out for him. I loved the Dectet, but it wasn’t as good as Phish. And 70 Volt Parade seems like another step down. Regardless, Trey is a great musician and will continue to compose wonderful music for as long as he is alive. I just hope that he will think about the good times, and maybe try to bring them back. I just can’t settle for WSP, moe. or STS9. I sound like the disgruntled Dead-head in ‘95(you know the one)Hahaha!
on November 7th, 2005 at 8:07 am
Trey good for you. As long as your happy with the new band then thats just fine with me. I’ve followed phish since clifford ball 96 and I hated the fact that coventry was the last phish show but I rather have no phish than for you to be unhappy. HOwever for now I can only support the new the band and hope sometime down the line I get to see you and the other guys who I began to love one more time.
on November 7th, 2005 at 4:57 pm
I think this was one of the best post-Phish articles yet. As a veteran of almost 90 Phish shows, I miss them as much as anyone. Not a huge fan of new Trey stuff, but still give it as much a chance as any other music. Why trash the musician? Music is an artform, and like any other art, people should criticize the art itself not the accomplished artist. And for all you Phish reunion hopefuls, try spending less time caring about a reunion and more time supporting bands on the rise. Try Umphrey’s McGee. Every bit as much talent, creativity, and energy as Phish. Just my opinion.
on November 7th, 2005 at 4:57 pm
I want Tony back on bass! bring back Tony Markellis so i can go on tony tour!
on November 7th, 2005 at 5:33 pm
Phish is not coming back, and it should not if Trey or anybody else in phish is not 100% into it. Listening to phish now play a song like Mikes song, or its ice would be like eating a steak on top of a garbage can lid. They changed my life, and have a huge part of me that will be forever greatful. I respect that Trey really does have the courage to say enough is enough and move on. Nothing last forever….even phish.
P.S. Saw Trey play last night for the first time and was shocked. Trey does not need page, mike, or fishman to fuckin rip it up.
on November 7th, 2005 at 10:05 pm
the magical art those 4 men create together can never be duplicated. it evolves. it grows. people grow.
i do hope they come back as something other than phish, so most people can’t bitch…phish made them walk..blah blah…they want fluffhead instead of bouncin…tickets cost whatever.
i am sure they didn’t mean to have the pressures of supporting tour kidZ lifestyles back in college in vermont.
trey man- just play with the boys.
you know you want to.
i’ll be there to support that shit.
word.
on November 8th, 2005 at 12:06 pm
Trey-Keep Growing. Most of these people don’t understand a musician’s need to move on. Plus, just as 70’s Jerry kicked 90’s Jerry ass…Early 90’s Trey kicks ‘05 Treys ass. As far as bands go, LeftOverSalmon kicked all their asses. LOS will never be duplicated, sorry to say, Phish will be.
on November 8th, 2005 at 10:05 pm
Trey… i dont know what to say… i love you!
call me!!!
on November 9th, 2005 at 2:58 am
FOR THE RECORD. Trey is cooler than cool, but he’ll never be as big as PHISH without MIKE PAGE FISH AND PAGE. They can’t be looked over as far as the talent in the band. FUCK YOU if you dont like trey. The fact is you LIKED Trey and the rest of PHISH because they were PHISH, thats why your reading this now. MY honest opinion is along with the scene at the shows, the stability of the USA as a whole was the reason they broke up. Who wants to tour to ALL sold out venues when the country is at high alert and the Mexican border is a piece of twine. FYI Phish is still alive, but its all digital. My new thing is trading shows on the internet. I went from 40-400 in half a year.
Sorry for the rant, but shit.
on November 9th, 2005 at 2:59 am
sorry im drunk
on November 10th, 2005 at 11:38 am
Phish will be back in less than 2 years. wait it out. go listem to umphreys. them right now = phish circa 1992.
on May 4th, 2006 at 10:30 pm
Look, phish was phish, trey is trey. since when has he done what the mainstream wants? his mainstream is us, and what we want does not matter. he is an artist, and his medium is music. not what a bunch of phans want. true, it would be good is they got back together, but its their choice. we should be glad they gave us what they did.
Peace out man
on August 7th, 2006 at 10:41 am
Saw Trey at All Good. He, like most of the other jam bands I have seen in the past few years, has little talent and thrives on the ignorance of nodern hippies towards music. Fuck TREY!!!!……….and PHISH!!!!!!!………and any other band he will play with until he learns how to play without simply noodling with scales. GET SOME FUCKING EMOTION.
on August 7th, 2006 at 10:18 pm
oheepa is where its at not PT
on August 7th, 2006 at 11:29 pm
Trey does not compare to hendrix, clapton, mcglaughlin, rypdall, garcia, or metheny, to name only a few. stop accepting less than what is possible and accept only the best. if trey were alive int he 60’s he would have been little more than a bar musician. i know it’s not the 60’s anymore, but that does not mean that we have to settle for less. the hippy counter culture, much to my disappointment, is dying, and people like trey are the reason. his music is far too linear to be intellectual or ground breaking. listen to what pat metheny was doing in the late 70’s and early 80’s. anything trey does now, or ever has done, was done before he even graduated from college. you people need to actually do some research before you start speaking about something, other wise you end up looking like a fool.
P.S. if you bring up the arguement that my grammar or my spelling is flawed in some way you only futher to serve my previous statement. refute the idea,
not the spelling or grammar.
on August 7th, 2006 at 11:31 pm
my real email address in sheem8881@yahoo.com. If you want to email and attempt to refute my ideas then please do so. i will accept any attempt as being honorable, and if I lose to your agruement I will concede victory to you.
on August 8th, 2006 at 10:15 am
it’s odd that people trully care what musical preferences each other have. grow up.
TREY SUCKS!!!!
on August 10th, 2006 at 3:35 pm
Me,
dig dude. However, perhaps its not the fault of people like trey. Perhaps its the fault of all of us for accepting the crappy music people seem to create today. Like Robert Randolph, saw him a few weeks ago. What is this guys doing playing some of the biggest shows on the coast. He should be little more than a bar band. playing covers of P-Funk. Trey, he is certainly able to use his fingers, it is his mind that I would say is lacking. He is unable to create anything different than what he’s been playing for years, which is very similar to what Pat Metheny had already been doing (good statement about Pat dude). It’s only, I would say, through lack of musical experience that people place those like Trey, and Randolph, and String Cheese, Disco Biscuits, Yonder Mountain, or Umphrey’s at the top of the pole. Perhaps if these groups were to start adding other genres to their styles they would improve. As it is, however, they are follow a “linear path” and pretty much all sound the same. The main difference is in the instruments they use, even their beats are all the same. A simple 4/4 count with a lot of emphasis on the bass drum and noodling guitar riffs. Perhaps someday soon a new groups will arrive who makes that true sound of release, like Medeski Martin and Wood, but until then why do you all even allow these other groups to become famous? Stop this, we should not be applauding them for being the best when they are not.
on December 19th, 2006 at 6:51 am
I bet a lot of people are wondering the same thing, but there have been rumours that the breakup of Phish was influenced by Trey’s and possibly other members alleged drug problems. If Trey is trying to settle down with his family and other aspects of normalcy than why is he still (allegedly) doing drugs? I would have to say playing music is less harmful to your family than drug problems. Any responses?
{Edited by Moderator}